03/02/2006 01:00 PM House MILITARY & VETERANS' AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR27 | |
| HJR33 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HJR 27 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 465 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HJR 33 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AND VETERANS' AFFAIRS
March 2, 2006
1:06 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bob Lynn, Chair
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Bill Thomas
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom
Representative Sharon Cissna (via teleconference)
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Max Gruenberg
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 27
Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation amending
the Alaska Native Vietnam Veterans Allotment Act to allow
deserving veterans to obtain allotments of vacant land within
the State of Alaska; and to reopen and legislatively approve
allotments in the Tongass National Forest.
- MOVED CSHJR 27(MLV) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 33
Urging the Alaska Department of Health and Social Services to
seek authority and funding from the United States Department of
Veterans Affairs to establish a system allowing Alaska veterans
treatment in both public and private Alaska facilities.
- MOVED HJR 33 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 465
"An Act relating to marine safety and security; and providing
for an effective date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 27
SHORT TITLE: ALLOTMENTS FOR NATIVE VIETNAM VETERANS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) COGHILL
01/18/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/18/06 (H) MLV, STA
03/02/06 (H) MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HJR 33
SHORT TITLE: SUPPORTING IN-STATE MED. CARE FOR VETS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KOTT
02/13/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/13/06 (H) MLV, HES
03/02/06 (H) MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Speaking as the sponsor, explained the
reasoning behind HJR 27 and the corresponding CS.
JOHN HOPKINS
Native Village of Eyak Veterans
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 27.
PAUL MAYO, Director
Real Estate Services
Tanana Chiefs Conference
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that HJR 27 is of great
importance to Alaska Natives throughout the state.
EDWARD K. THOMAS, President
Central Council
Tlingit & Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: His testimony supporting HJR 27 was read by
Desiree Duncan.
TED SUCKLING
Alaska Native Veterans Association
Post 3
Nenana, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 27.
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD FOSTER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 27.
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Speaking as the sponsor, explained the
intended effects of HJR 33.
RIC DAVIDGE, President
Vietnam Veterans of America
Chapter 904;
Chairman, Alaska Veterans Foundation
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HJR 33.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR BOB LYNN called the House Special Committee on Military
and Veterans' Affairs meeting to order at 1:06:27 PM.
Representatives Lynn, Elkins, and Thomas were present at the
call to order. Representatives Dahlstrom and Cissna (via
teleconference) arrived as the meeting was in progress.
1:06:45 PM
HJR 27-ALLOTMENTS FOR NATIVE VIETNAM VETERANS
1:06:55 PM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 27, urging the United States Congress
to pass legislation amending the Alaska Native Vietnam Veterans
Allotment Act to allow deserving veterans to obtain allotments
of vacant land within the State of Alaska; and to reopen and
legislatively approve allotments in the Tongass National Forest.
1:07:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL, Alaska State Legislature, speaking
as the sponsor, explained that HJR 27 is a result of
conversations he had with Vietnam veterans who had applied for
allotments and weren't able to have their applications
completed. This resolution asks Congress to reconsider a
reopener on legislatively formulated allotments and asks for the
opening on a court case, Shields v. United States. He remarked
that the proposed CS is a result of legal counsel informing him
that there are two bills in Congress regarding the same subject
matter. He clarified that [the CS] doesn't alter the verbiage
of this resolution, rather changes the recipient. The two bills
in Congress, S. 2000 and H.R. 1811, are sponsored by U.S.
Senator Lisa Murkowski and Congressman Don Young, respectively.
He noted that this resolution would encourage and support those
bills.
1:10:17 PM
JOHN HOPKINS, Native Village of Eyak Veterans, relayed that he
agreed with what the committee said about the first "go around"
being confusing and very restrictive. He said that it almost
seemed to him, when he was filling out some of the applications
and looking at some of the maps, that [the federal government]
wanted this allotment "thing" to fail. He opined that it would
have been nice if [Alaska veterans] were allowed half as many
choices as those who went before them. He remarked that Vietnam
veterans have missed out on a lot of things like limited entry,
for example. He further remarked that it would be nice if
[Alaska veterans] had some kind of legacy that they could pass
on to their children and grandchildren.
1:12:10 PM
PAUL MAYO, Director, Real Estate Services, Tanana Chiefs
Conference, stated that this resolution is of great importance
to Alaska Natives throughout the state because it's pivotal in
persuading Congress to amend the Alaska Native Vietnam Veterans
Act, and to reopen allotments which were previously denied
because they were located in the Tongass National Forest. He
continued that by passing HJR 27, the Alaska State Legislature
will become the leader in [the Tanana Chiefs'] quest to
Washington, D.C., to right a wrong on behalf of its Alaska
Native Vietnam veterans. He informed the committee that the
Tanana Chiefs Conference consists of 15,000 members spread
across 235,000 square miles. He noted that many of its members
and clients are veterans who honorably served in the military
during the Vietnam era. As a result of their military service,
many Alaska Native veterans were overseas when the government
took allotment applications during the late 1960s and early
1970s, right before the Allotment Act of 1906 was repealed in
1971. He remarked that the Veterans Allotment Act was intended
to give those veterans another chance to get an allotment, but
it has not done so. He noted that both congressional bills were
referred to committees, but no action has occurred since then.
MR. MAYO relayed that the Tanana Chiefs Conference believes that
HJR 27 will persuade Congress to amend the Veterans Allotment
Act, as it needs to be changed. Of the estimated 700 veterans
who applied for an allotment, approximately 60 percent have been
denied and only 1 application has been approved. He said,
"Obviously, the law needs to be changed." He continued that
there are three major reasons why so many veterans' applications
have been denied and why the law needs to be changed. The first
reason the existing law needs to be amended is that there is
hardly any land left in Alaska that meets the many restrictions.
He remarked that the case of Gilbert Ketzler, Jr., illustrates
the need to change the type of land available for veteran
allotments. Mr. Ketzler volunteered and bravely served as an
Army medic in Vietnam until he was killed in action in 1969.
Mr. Ketzler volunteered to go to Vietnam in order that his three
younger brothers would not have to go. Mr. Mayo informed the
committee that Mr. Ketzler's father applied for a veterans'
allotment for Mr. Ketzler's heirs, but it was rejected because
the land he used was not the type of land available because the
land was selected by a Native corporation. Mr. Ketzler's heirs,
he further related, could receive an allotment under the pending
amendments, which allow Native corporations to voluntarily
relinquish land for better allotments.
1:14:59 PM
MR. MAYO stated that the second reason is the current use
restriction requirements are unreasonable and take a lot of time
and money to sort out. The pending amendments solve this by
replacing the existing use requirements with legislative
approval. He relayed that legislative approval is the identical
method allowed for all non-veteran allotments and would greatly
help veterans, or their heirs, obtain allotments. The third
reason the law needs to be changed is that many deserving
veterans, who bravely served during the Vietnam era, don't meet
the existing military service time restrictions. Only veterans
who served between January 1, 1969 to December 31, 1971 are now
eligible. He noted that approximately 1,700 veterans are now
excluded simply because they bravely served their country a
little too early or a little too late. The case of Ronald Paul
illustrates this problem. After serving in the National Guard
for over five years, Mr. Paul enlisted in the U.S. Army in 1967.
He was on the front-line in Vietnam for 11 months until he was
critically wounded in 1968. He was told he needed numerous
surgeries available to him only in a Veterans Affairs (VA)
hospital. Mr. Paul was hospitalized for over a year and today
he's a disabled veteran who isn't eligible for an allotment
under current law because he left the military service too
early. Mr. Mayo highlighted that although Mr. Paul did receive
a purple heart, he did not receive an allotment. However, Mr.
Paul could receive an allotment under the pending amendments,
which expand the military service dates to include the entire
Vietnam era.
1:16:31 PM
MR. MAYO added that Ruben Mixsooke also volunteered and bravely
served in Vietnam, but in 1969 he was forced to leave military
service because both of his legs were blown off by a mine. Mr.
Mixsooke's veterans' allotment was denied because he didn't
serve the required six months of military service between
January 1, 1969 and December 31, 1971. Mr. Mixsooke could also
receive an allotment under the pending amendments, which expand
the military service dates to include the entire Vietnam era.
1:19:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS surmised that there are between 20 and 30
Native Vietnam veterans in Haines, Klukwan, and Skagway that
would qualify [for an allotment].
CHAIR LYNN inquired as to how many people are excluded because
of the time limits.
MR. MAYO responded that he didn't have that breakdown with him.
1:20:32 PM
EDWARD K. THOMAS had his testimony read by Desiree Duncan as
follows:
The Central Council of the Tlingit & Haida [Indian
Tribes of Alaska] represents about 26,000 members
throughout Alaska and the United States. Our council
evolved out of the dedication of our people to retain
our subsistence way of life. Crucial to this way of
life is the lands we have used for many, many
generations. Most of this land is now within the
Tongass National Forest and has been since 1909. The
problem for us is about in order to get an allotment,
you must prove you used the land before it was
withdrawn. This means we have very few allotments as
compared to other areas of Alaska. Our 26,000 members
have only 22 certified or approved allotments and 31
allotments that are pending, but not approved. The
Sitka Tribe has recently told me that its 3,900
members have only 13 certified, 3 approved, and 1
pending allotment. We are certain that your
resolution will convince Congress to amend the Alaska
Native Vietnam Veterans Act and reopen allotments
located in the Tongass National Forest that were
denied because the land in Southeast Alaska was
withdrawn for the Tongass in the very early 1900s. It
is well known that the government did not tell people
about allotments until the late 1960s and early 1970s,
but by then, many who could have applied for
allotments in the Tongass were deceased. A federal
court case named Shields v. United States was brought
in 1983 by several hundred people who had applied
[for] allotments in the Tongass, but were born after
the land was withdrawn. The applicants hoped that the
court in the Shields case would interpret the language
in the allotment act in a manner that would allow
their ancestors use of their allotment land to count,
but the court ruled the law required the applicants to
personally use land before it was withdrawn. Thus,
there are very few allotments in Southeast Alaska.
Adding to the pending amendments, a provision to
reopen (indisc.) under Shields will solve this
disparity.
MR. THOMAS' testimony continued:
Our veterans are also prevented from obtaining
allotments because the Veterans Allotment Act
specifically prohibits veterans' allotments in
national forests. The amendments to the Veterans
Allotment Act, introduced in Congress as H.R. 1811 and
S. 2000, will allow for allotments in the Tongass
National Forest. The amendments also provide other
important changes. The amendments open up the
qualifying dates for the veterans who served in the
Vietnam era, covering August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
It allows veterans' allotments on any vacant federal
land, extends legislative approval for veterans'
allotments unless protests are lodged, allows the
state and Native corporations to voluntarily give up
land for veterans' allotments, and allows heirs of
deceased veterans to apply. For those who might think
allowing more allotments will just increase the time
it takes for the federal government to finalize the
land transfers in Alaska, including the land the state
is entitled to, I assure you that the amendments will
not add more time, it will decrease it. This is true
because of the legislative approval provision in the
amendment. Legislative approval saves time and money.
In fact, the finalization of land transfers cannot
happen by 2009 without the expansion of legislative
approval to all pending cases .... Congress enacted
the Alaska Native Allotment Act in 1906 so that Alaska
Natives would obtain title to land and resources that
fed, clothed, and sheltered them for thousands of
years. Many Alaska Natives still wait for that
promised title. I urge this committee to pass House
Joint Resolution (HJR) 27 and in doing so, urge
Congress to amend the Veterans Allotment Act and
reopen allotments in the Tongass National Forest.
1:25:56 PM
TED SUCKLING, Alaska Native Veterans Association, Post 3,
expressed his hope that HJR 27 passes. He relayed that while
growing up around Nenana, the land which he was using during the
late 1960s/early 1970s was federal land which has since been
taken over by the [State of Alaska]. He further relayed that he
has very little [land] to choose from [in Nenana].
1:27:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD FOSTER, Alaska State Legislature,
informed the committee that [constituents] in his district would
easily qualify under the provisions of this bill. He noted that
due to cultural differences, it's difficult for many of his
constituents to complete paperwork, which is why nonprofits in
Nome have taken it upon themselves to help veterans do so. He
surmised that at least half of the eligible veterans who would
have qualified in the late 1990s, before the deadline, probably
didn't even bother applying. He relayed that these people have
had the use of these lands since childhood for their subsistence
needs. He stated that he would support this bill all the way
and he would encourage/hope that the committee members move the
bill and keep it going.
1:30:51 PM
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL requested that upon a quorum, the
committee adopt Version G, which is dated 2/21/06. He added
that copies of HJR 27 will be sent to the [the chair of the U.S.
Senate Committee on] Energy and Natural Resources and the chair
of the [U.S.] House Committee on Resources. Therefore, the
resolution will be sent to the committees of referral and then
to [the Alaska] congressional delegation. He opined that from
1906 until now, the Native allotment issue has been handled
rather poorly. He said, "This is our opportunity, really, to
open up a window, or at least request that a window be opened up
for those that were in service when they closed down the
allotment issue in 1969." He further opined that it's a
reasonable request. He relayed that there is a possibility of
state land being involved and that he will do whatever he can to
ensure the flexibility to get state land into hands where it's
needed as well as to work closely with the [Alaska]
congressional delegation. He noted his intention to follow this
resolution all the way to Congress and make the case for Alaska
Native Vietnam veterans.
1:33:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS suggested that the committee waive HJR 27.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA agreed to waiving HJR 27.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said that if the committee waived HJR 27,
he would present the CS to the other committee of referral.
1:37:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS moved to adopt CSHJR 27, Version 24-
LS0291\G, Bullock, 2/21/06, as the working document. There
being no objection, Version G was before the committee.
1:38:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS moved to report CSHJR 27, Version 24-
LS0291\G, Bullock, 2/21/06, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being
no objection, CSHJR 27(MLV) was reported out of the House
Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.
HJR 33-SUPPORTING IN-STATE MED. CARE FOR VETS
1:38:52 PM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 33, urging the Alaska Department of
Health and Social Services to seek authority and funding from
the United States Department of Veterans Affairs to establish a
system allowing Alaska veterans treatment in both public and
private Alaska facilities.
1:39:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT, Alaska State Legislature, speaking as
the sponsor, explained that HJR 33 encourages the [U.S.]
Department of Veterans Affairs to consider allowing Alaska
veterans who currently receive [health care] services in the
Lower 48, primarily in Portland or Seattle veterans' hospitals,
to receive health care services in Alaska. He noted that in
2004, [the State of Alaska] spent approximately $2 million in
transporting Alaska veterans to Portland or Seattle veterans'
hospitals. In addition, HJR 33 is requesting the consideration
of a credit-like card, which would allow veterans to receive
health care services from their provider in Alaska. The
provider would be reimbursed by the Alaska Department of Health
and Social Services, which would be reimbursed by the U.S.
Department of Veterans Affairs. He mentioned that Alaska
doesn't have the population to justify building a veterans'
hospital.
1:41:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT, in response to Chair Lynn, confirmed that
the concept of a credit-like card, which would allow veterans to
receive health care services from their provider in Alaska, is a
novel one. He opined that it would be more efficient, and added
that it would alleviate the burden of paperwork placed on
veterans.
1:46:17 PM
RIC DAVIDGE, President, Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter
904; Chairman, Alaska Veterans Foundation, provided the
following testimony:
As most of you know, over the last three years, all of
the nine National Veterans Organizations of America
have been working together, which is a unique thing,
to address the failure of Congress and our various
administrations to meet the legally required, and
certainly morally obligated needs, of our current and
future veterans (indisc.) in their health care area.
But we've seen little progress. The problems
actually, in our study, appear to be structural and
it's time for some new ideas. I think, as a nation,
we recognize that we ensure the health care of the
poor, the old, and even our illegal immigrants, but
not for the men and women who stand guard for America.
Alaska is now, and will likely continue to be, at its
highest military deployment since World War II. It
means more and more Alaskans are serving in harm's way
overseas. Alaskans are being killed and wounded, and
their families are hurting. Not just because their
husbands, wives, or family members are in harm's way,
but also because they're financially distressed. If
you have a copy of our talking paper, one of the
interesting things that Alaskans don't understand is
if you're in the active reserve or National Guard and
you're activated and you have a full-time job, you
have just lost the health care from that full-time
job, although you may be guaranteed to return to that
job. Your family has lost the full-time health care
that's provided by that job. Now they certainly
receive a certain amount of health care while you're
in service, but when you come back from overseas
service, and probably/possibly with some injury, those
injuries are excluded from new health care programs
that you may apply for, and Alaskans are being hurt
because of that. One of the problems I'm going to
speak off the paper for a minute, and I hope that the
staff has provided you with our talking paper, and
this is an active talking paper that goes through the
structural programs and what this program would try to
do. I think we have an opportunity in Alaska because
of our nature, because we're so rural, because we have
veterans spread literally thousands of miles around,
to look at some new ideas. The VA does encourage what
they call demonstration programs. We think Alaska
would be an excellent demonstration project and in
recent conversations from (indisc.) with our president
in Washington, D.C. of the Vietnam Veterans of
America, he's very encouraged with this idea. I just
provided you today a copy of his recent testimony
before Congress, playing out that this $4.7 billion
short in the VA health care program. What we're
trying to do here is stop setting up new hospitals/new
clinics, shipping veterans out of Alaska at the cost
of millions of dollars, and at the economic loss to
the medical community in Alaska in the tens of
millions. Because the services are here, but the
bureaucracy has a certain mind set. We think we could
go back to what would be characterized as the old
system. We actually have VA people working at
Providence Hospital in the intake/services area.
These are VA employees, VA doctors, VA nurses, public
health people as well, who are providing services to
veterans. The veteran would go to the hospital, show
their veteran card, which showed that they had a
certain connected disability or they were retired or
whatever, and then take advantage of the services of
that private health care claim or hospital.
1:50:14 PM
MR. DAVIDGE continued his testimony:
What this does is ensure a more efficient use of the
existing privately provided medical care facilities in
the state. Why we send, as the sponsor said, we spent
$2 million last year sending veterans out of the state
for medical services, all of which are provided in the
state. I've talked to the directors of Providence
[Hospital], I've talked to the directors of Alaska
Regional, and no one can find medical service need
that is not provided in Alaska that these guys are
being sent off to be treated for, other than
residential [Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)]
programs. We think that we should really sit down,
and the resolution directs basically the State of
Alaska to sit down and think creatively about a
partnership, if you will, with the veterans'
administration in providing Alaska veterans this
health care. We believe, in the work that we've done,
and I think if you look at the material that we
provided you, it would show that rather dramatically,
we can not only save the veterans' administration a
huge amount of money, but we can better take advantage
and support the private medical facilities in our
state. Why create a new hospital, a veterans'
hospital, we don't have one up here. We sort of have
one over at the Air Force base, but not really. When
the veteran or their family can go to their doctor of
choice, their hospital of choice, show their card, if
they have a service-connected disability, a percentage
of that disability would be taken off the bill, etc.
It's a very easily put-together concept. One of the
things that we discovered is that $9-$10 million a
year is returned to the Alaska VA to a third party
village. In other words, you go to the VA, you get
treatment, and they say do you have any other medical
insurance? Well I have Blue Cross, okay fine. The VA
then bills Blue Cross for a percentage of your medical
services. That money, we think, as is the case in
Native health care program, should be returned to the
state, not the VA. That would be seed money to begin
a program within the Alaska Department of Health and
Social Services to begin to provide Alaska veterans
the medical services that they need in the state. We
don't have all the answers, but the effort over the
last three years by the nine National Veterans
Organizations who finally have come together over this
issue have also not found the answers. We need a
program that ensures that those men and women from
Alaska who stand guard for America get the medical
services they need when they come. We think that this
is a good, positive first step. We would hope that
the state would put together a working task force,
bring together the people involved in this, and sit
down and look at a way to do this. My discussions
with the doctors, leading doctors in Anchorage and
both of the hospitals, clearly indicate that they
would be very supportive of this. We would literally
be returning tens of millions of dollars in medical
services that are currently being provided in Oregon
or Seattle, or even some cases back East for Alaska
veterans. That money would be spent in Alaska, so it
would have a huge economic benefit as well as a
benefit to Alaska veterans.
1:53:39 PM
MR. DAVIDGE continued his testimony:
Being a disabled veteran who has to go outside of the
state because the VA decides that I have to do that
for medical services, at times when those services put
significant multiple stress on wife, my children, and
separates me from them. If we want to encourage care
and healing, having families together at these
critical times is very, very important. I have
members within my organization, Vietnam Veterans of
America, they have to go out monthly for radiation
treatment. All of that service is provided here in
the state of Alaska. But they have to absorb, on
themselves, the cost of taking their wives, or their
husbands in one case, with them so that they have that
kind of emotional support. We think this is a good,
very positive first step and we look forward to
immediate action by your committee and this
legislature to move this forward.
CHAIR LYNN opined that HJR 33 is a "pretty good bill" and added
that it would be a good idea to assemble a group to work on this
issue.
1:54:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA referred to page 2, lines 16-17, which
says: "establish a system allowing Alaska veterans to be
treated in public or private facilities in the state whenever
possible", and asked Representative Kott:
Was it your intention that we were really talking as
close to home means that it would be essentially
across the state people in say Hoonah, if there was in
fact the facility that could give the service needed,
could give that service in Hoonah, rather than the
regional center?
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT confirmed that Representative Cissna is
correct.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said, "I'm very, very much in favor of
this and I do appreciate that understanding that we're really
talking about services truly, truly in Alaska, as close to home
as possible."
1:57:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM moved to report HJR 33 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, HJR 33 was reported out of the
House Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.
1:58:04 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs meeting was
adjourned at 1:58 p.m.
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